PenPenWrites

PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Money Matters: The Wisdom of the Crowd on loan versus a gift to adult children

07/10/2019

Okay. So crowdsourcing wisdom is just another way of saying Reader Comments on an issue that cuts close to many of our hearts and pocketbooks. Often, though, those comments are more than passing remarks. They carry kernals of wisdom based on years of experience. So here is commentary from my readers responding to Michele Singletary's advice on when to cut the financial aid to adult children and from those who responded to a New York Times article calling for tips on managing household finances–with loans/gifts to family members eliciting commentary from two readers.

First up: General advice from a New York Times reader on financial assists, whether it's your kin or someone else in need:

“If you do give money to someone, you have no right to dictate what they do with it….This principle works for all kinds of donations. If I decide to give money to a family member, a person experiencing homelessness, or an institution, I have decided to trust their judgment, and I never think about it again.”

From a Parenting Grown Children reader responding to Michele Singletary's comment that, if you give to an adult child, the giving should help push that child toward financial independence:

"I like the quote from Singletary. Every child and every situation is different. We can cut those cords but sometimes we need to tape them back together for a short while in order to keep our children making forward progress."

While this reader doesn't address lending money to adult children per se, her comments could apply across the board. She wrote to the New York Times to say that when she was 10 years old, she lent a nickel to a classmate in Sunday school, and never got it back.

“I decided that I would never loan money to anyone again. I’m nearly 65 and I’ve kept my vow. I only give money away. I let people know it’s a gift and nothing is owed, in any manner. And I do it with a smile and graciously.”
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Observations: Michelle Singletary on when to cut an adult child’s financial cord

07/01/2019

I am not the only one writing about the helping hand versus tough love. Or how to find, as Michelle Singletary puts it in her Washington Post column, The Color of Money, "the balance between protecting our children and letting them learn the hard way."

She does not–as I do not–have an all-purpose, one-answer-fits-all solution. It depends. She writes about hearing from readers who are helping pay down their children's student loan debt and opening savings accounts for grandchildren ("We do not see this as an umbilical cord, we see it as an investment in their future.") and another reader who is supporting a child while he gets his PhD ("He'll get the money sooner or later, and he might as well get it when it will help the most.")

To be sure, it is not all "thanks and I'll pay you back on your investment in me." There are times when we might not hand over assets. Some kids exude an unpleasant air of entitlement, which could be a signal to tighten the fist. And, of course, not all of us can afford to be as generous to our kids as we would like to be.

Affordability aside, here's where Singletary comes down on the financial aid question:

Wherever you draw the line, take a step back and make sure you’re pushing your children toward being as self-supporting as possible.
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Vacation Togetherness Addendum: More tips on the art of inclusion and compromise

06/21/2019

photo: Maia Lemov

Adventure travel with adult children is, well, an adventure with an extra dimension. "Though it gets less attention that traveling with young children, there are," a travel editor assures us, "as many joys and as many complications in traveling with adult offspring."

The editor's family–mother, father, two 20-something daughters–went to China and toured around remote Yunnan Province. The family "had to catch seven flights, spend a night together in a tiny sleeper train compartment, find restaurants to please every palate, and survive two illnesses, a mountainside van breakdown, altitude sickness, a shakedown and a couple of questionable hotels." That said, it was a wonderful and bonding experience. Looking back at it and other trips, the author, Elizabeth Chang, shares guidelines for travel with adult offspring. You can catch the full list here.

Here are a few highlights:

Consult everyone about the itinerary. Compromises need to be made but everyone should have a destination or site they're excited about.

Don't overbook–allow time for impulse visits and to recoup energy.

Create a shared document where everyone can check the hotels, departure and arrival times, names of guides hired.

Get separate rooms–everyone needs a chance to get away from each other.

Discuss money beforehand–as in, who's paying for what.

Have them organize and lead some of the trip excursions.
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

My Tiny Love Story to my children and grandchildren

06/04/2019

It's my Tiny Love Story online in the New York Times.

With my littlest grandchild.

Noise, then Silence

My husband and I watched from the driveway as our son and his family of five packed their van for the 7-hour drive home. For a week, our house had thrilled to the sounds of small feet on stairs, stories being read, spoons clinking against cereal bowls. Now my littlest grandchild’s tricycle was put into the van’s hatch, the door slammed, the engine started. We leaned in for last hugs. As their car backed away, the sense of loss was sudden and sharp. For days we had been absorbed into the life of this precious family. And now, not. — Penelope Lemov
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Family Visits: Saying Goodbye Is the Hardest Part

05/29/2019

A friend recently returned from Denmark where she spent 10 days with her daughter and granddaughter who've lived outside Copenhagen for nearly 17 years. It was a pleasant visit, she reports. She saw her granddaughter act in a play, and the three of them went to Amsterdam for a look at the tulips. She and her daughter got along better than they usually do–they see each other two or three times a year–and she felt a special closeness to her teenage granddaughter.

My friend is not the sentimental type. That's why it surprised her when she started weeping when it came time to say goodbye. "I had such an empty feeling," she says.

I know. When my daughter lived on the West coast–in the other Washington–I used to sob in the back of the taxi as the driver raced me to the airport and my flight back east. My daughter and my baby granddaughter were thriving, so why was I blubbering? Empty feeling? Yes. Plus a regret that she lived so far away and I couldn't be there if she needed my help.

It's not just a female thing. The other day Paterfamilias had a farewell "moment" (non-blubber style) when his teenage granddaughter left for the airport after a three-day visit. Then there's this full-on emotional response a Canadian father wrote about his son's departure after a week-long visit.

His winter-battered car with ruby tail lights goes down to the end of the block to a cul-de-sac, swings around and comes back toward me. As he goes by, I slowly turn to wave at this one-man parade. I am silently saying goodbye. See ya’ soon. Safe journeys. The street light overhead fortunately doesn’t reveal the tears in my eyes, nor can it possibly reveal the less-tangible gap where loneliness is now in permanent residence.

…. I glance up and down the city block on which I have lived for more than 30 years. I have no idea why it seems so empty. Winter has turned the trickle of tears on my cheeks to a tiny frozen stream.

Is this the other side of the mansplaining coin? I tear-up every time I read it. All of us who have children who live far from us miss the daily or weekly get-together with our children and their children–be it tea, lunch or Sunday dinner. Or just a drop-by. Skype is nice but it's not the same.
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Vacation Togetherness: Six tips on taking the grown kids (and maybe their kids) along

05/29/2019

When I was young and in my 20s–single and starting my career, then married and starting a family–I did not want to vacation with my parents. I'd been there, done that growing up. Now I wanted to taste adventure–not the same-old same-old with the same-old same-olds. Nor was I any different from my friends. We were all about striking out on our own.

How the worm has turned. Family Vacations Are Us. Not just us, as in my family. Cruise ships tout inter-generational groupings, so does VRBO and AirBnb, to say nothing of resorts and travel companies. (Even Roads Scholars, which caters to the 55+ set, has grandparent-grandchild outings.).

There are reasons for the trend. A major one: our grown kids may not live near us or each other, so a family get together is more reunion than vacation. Moreover, we're the generation that's had a soft landing. Many of us have retired or are near retirement with healthy retirement savings. Not only can we afford to travel, we can afford to invite our kids along.

Now that I'm the "same old same old" that my parents were when I broke away, I have embraced family togetherness. For the past 15 years Paterfamilias and I have rented condos in a resort in Vermont and invited our grown children and their families to join us. When we started it was because my daughter lived in Seattle and my son in Boston. They were both on the very beginning rungs of their careers–in graduate school or in first jobs. We wanted the reunion; we picked up the tab. But .as the years have skampered by and our kids have come into their primes, costs are shared. We're no longer the sole source of the rent, food and transportation–nor even the key decision maker about when the family vacay will take place. It's a complicated dance of work schedules and activities–theirs, not ours.

I've written several posts on tips for making these inter-generational get-togethers a satisfying vacation. [Here here and here.] but there is always room for another perspective. A British writer pulled together some guidance for Brits planning vacations with their grown children. Here are some of the pointers worth repeating. I'm particularly fond of the last one.

Make sure everyone has a say in the destination and activities. Consider renting two cars so you're not stuck all doing the same thing.

If the grown children work, they should contribute financially to the trip. If you're self-catering, everyone pitches in on meals–refuse to play 'mum' while on holiday.

Everyone gets a turn to be 'tour guide' for a day and decide on activities.

Young adults know the internet inside out – let them find out information and ease off the pedal. Your goal is to spend family time together – do you really care where and how?

Not everyone has to stay the entire time, especially if they're converging from different places.

If you are involving partners (or kids) of your adult children, the dynamic of intergenerational holidays may need to be discussed or you'll end up babysitting while they're escaping for fun.

Avoid the impulse to act like parents. Remember what it was like when you travelled in your 20s – most kids are smart and savvy to a far greater degree.
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Observations: Social Qs on correcting our adult children’s behavior

05/03/2019

So many things to love about our grown children. And yet, a few that irk, irritate or strike us as wrong. If they were eight years old, we would correct their behavior–point out the folly of their way, set them on a wiser path. But they're independent adults now and may even be parents themselves. What do we do when we see them do something that we feel needs correcting?

"Let it go" is the core of the advice from Philip Galanes (Social Qs) to a 62-year-old grandmother. She writes to say she finds it disturbing the way her 5-year-old grandson, whom she babysits twice a week, is subjected to the sight of her daughter and son-in-law kissing passionately in front him (and her). More specifically, here's what Galanes has to say (including an implied warning) about the "correction" issue:

A "big advantage your grandson currently enjoys is having a loving grandmother built into his weekly routine. Do your best to safeguard that — which means holding back, when possible, from criticizing the way your daughter and son-in-law run their household. As a parent of adult children, it often pays to be quiet about the ways their choices differ from yours."
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Etiquette Expectations: Should our kids bring us gifts when they come home for a holiday dinner?

04/25/2019

An email from a friend arrived in my inbox this week. He was soliciting advice. Here's his question.

Our older son notified us by text that he and his wife could come over for Easter Sunday dinner. We dutifully dropped $50 on primo lamb chops, wild rice, asparagus, a freshly baked pie, and a six-pack of craft beer. Our son arrived empty handed, though he quickly filled one by grabbing a beer from the refrigerator, handing a sparkling water to his wife. The fact that the pair brought nothing cast a pall of entitlement over the holiday dinner. Was I wrong to feel this way? Could this have been my own fault for subsidizing him for so long? I look forward to your sage guidance.

Readers, what would you tell hm? Here's the stab I made at handing out sage guidance on life's little and big inter-personal problems.

We feel what we feel and you feel lousy about your son not acknowledging the effort you made. It might have helped if he had thanked you for making such a great dinner.

But this may not be an entitlement issue. Adult kids are still kids and when they come home for a "special" dinner they don't see themselves as guests but as your son, and sons or daughters don't usually think to bring "guest gifts" or "chip in" offerings to their parents. Also it may be a generational thing. Every year we are invited to a neighbor's house for Passover dinner along with their two adult kids and their families as well as cousins and the cousins' kids. I always call to see what I can bring (usually dessert). But it turns out that I am almost alone in that. My neighbor tells me that I and an "older" cousin are the only ones who offer to bring anything. The grown kids and cousins never do.

If these kids were invited to a friend's house for a big get-together, would they bring a six pack or a bottle of wine? Probably. But parents seem to be another story.

I checked in with Paterfamilias. He leaned toward letting it slide. His rationale: The relationship with adult children is so important and delicately balanced, why let something relatively minor become an issue.

Any of you readers want to take a crack at this?
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

Money Matters: We’re still supporting our kids into their 30s and 40s

04/08/2019

If we can afford to do it, a number of us are the financial backers of our grown kids. We're not just helping our recent college graduates with rent or a cell phone bill. We're doing the same and more for our kids in their 30s and 40s–kids who are established on their career tracks but moving into the "expensive" part of their lives, the time when they marry, have children, buy homes. (The percent of kids getting help, according to a 2018 report, is more than half adult kids between the ages of 21 and 37.)

The reason, per this NYTimes story: Millennial incomes today are lower than they were for Gen Xers and boomers at the same point in their lives. Many of today's millennials graduated from college into the recession, and that put them behind in terms of salaries and savings. Add to that today's real estate market: In many of the big cities where our grown kids live, the cost of simple housing is out of their affordability range–if not for our help with a down payment assist here or a co-sign there.

Beyond cash outlays, some of us provide services that add up. A recently retired friend of mine babysits her eight month old grandson three days a week. The other grannie sits the other two days so that the mom could go back to work full time. The value–apart from the irreplaceable loving care–is upwards of $25,000 a year.

While our kids may need the help, researchers found they don't feel great about taking it. Accepting help from the bank of mom and dad when you're in your 30s or 40s is evidently "the last taboo of finance that people don’t want to admit."

Shame or not, our largesse gives our kids an edge. While families with means have always helped their children, what’s different today, the Times reports, is that the economy has more extreme gyrations, which tends to flatten wages. That's when family wealth plays an outsize role in helping people get ahead. Those who don't get that parental financial boost are grappling with paying off student-loan debt, which effects their ability to save to buy a house–a key way to financial stability and the building of wealth. (Nationally, homeownership rates are falling for millennials; only two in 10 have a mortgage or home loan.)

A Boston real estate agent who works primarily with first-home buyers told a Times reporter that in the 20 years she's been an agent she has rarely seen anyone in their 30s who did not have family help or an inheritance for their down payment. (In the Boston market, a 20 percent down payment is between $80,000 and $100,000.) In even pricier New York City, a real estate agent estimates that a quarter of his 30-something clients who are buying larger, family-size apartments receive money from their parents, whether it’s in the form of a gift, a low-interest loan or co-purchasing.

It's a good thing we're around for them, as, evidently, more and more of us are.
PARENTING GROWN CHILDREN: The children may be grown but we still have our issues.

The bitter and sweet of living far from our grown children

03/28/2019

We who live far from our grown kids take solace in the "up" side of distance. When we visit them it is usually for a few days or even longer and those visits can be festive, busy and intense. For a few fleeting days we are part of their everyday lives: We see up close and personally how they live. We pick up on quotidian minutia that they don't discuss with us on Face Time or in texts. It's more intimate and revealing than having children live nearby and dropping by for an hour here and a dinner there.

But there's a trade-off. They're here today and gone in another day or two. A friend whose daughter flew in for a two-day visit, texted me in mid-visit: "My apartment is full of life! Today I know what I am missing."

Say no more. I know exactly what she means.

We are disciplined about being independent. These visits–whether we go to them or they come to us–are a reminder of the price of that discipline. We're not "sweeping up the heart/and putting love away" but the reality is our grown kids live far from us and lead lives very much apart from ours. We can't meet them spontaneously for a Saturday morning coffee. Paterfamilias and I have stopped going to Chinese restaurants on Sunday evenings–they are too filled with three generations of family laughing and talking and sharing fried rice and moo shi pork. And we're not.

While the long visits we get are wonderful and "full of life," they are a reminder of how much we miss our children and their families, of how we discipline ourselves not to think about the loss and the excitement the younger generation, whose lives are on fire, bring into our lives.

Noise, then Silence